Something I haven't thought about in a long time.

[Ryusui]

...Is it true that the Saban dub somehow fudged Johnny into a pair of twins?

EDIT: I just scrubbed through the US intro on YouTube, and it's part of the original Japanese intro bookended with original animation. Now I can guess the trick. >_<#

[Philip]

I'm interested to know this as well. As far as the North American toyline is concerned "Danny Dog" does have a twin. But so does "Roxie Raccoon" (Lola). And Cynthia Beaver is a boy named Bucky (wonder how they handled her episode.)

I haven't seen any English episode focusing on Johnny, so I don't know if they did anything to try to match the toyline in that case. It would be amusing to see them try turning one character into two, but I really hope they didn't go that far. I don't think they would, but you shouldn't underestimate Saban.

Although I don't enjoy watching the Saban dub much, I do find it kind of interesting to see the changes and cuts made. I'd like to know how many episodes were dubbed and which ones were skipped.

[Ryusui]

I remember reading a list of eps on the first US tape, and it appears episode 3 was skipped - "The Missing Silver Spoon," where Greter tries to swap a package containing the eponymous object with an identical package bomb. Bobby's brothers get involved, the packages are mixed up, and Hilarity Ensues. Not surprising in retrospect, but still.

As horrible as they might be, sometimes I think 4Kids Entertainment's typical hackjob is a step up from Saban's treatment of Maple Town. I don't think there's a single name in Yu-Gi-Oh! as awful as "Fannie Fox" - at least, none deliberately inflicted by the dub. (Konami's early ineptitude is a whole other story. We have a card called "Giant Trunade" because someone apparently didn't realize トルネード should romanize as "Tornado" instead.)

[Philip]

There is a list on this site: www.freewebs.com/stuffilike/mapletown.htm

I can tell from the titles that these are episodes 1-15, 17-20, 26, 27 29, 30, 33, 38 and 39. But there must be more of them. Especially since #27 is kind of the first of a two-parter. (I'd be interested enough to order these discs, but the fact that non-US buyers can't pay with paypal has kept me from doing so. Plus this manner of distributing episodes irks me.)

For me, the biggest flaw of the Saban dub is the elimination of the original soundtrack. Many scenes lose a lot of their impact because Saban inserted their jarring elevator music.

Dialogue-wise, it seems most of the time the scripts are pretty faithfully translated, or atleast close enough. But every now and then there will be rewrites and stupid jokes. Adding dialogue to scenes that were originally silent also seems common practice.

Lots of cuts, but most are time cuts (likely to make room for the live action segment). But things like Gretel's use of weapons, parents hitting their children etc. are definitely content cuts.

What I simply don't get is why Saban sometimes INSERTS scenes from unrelated episodes. For example, Saban's episode 1 cuts the short scene with Archimedes fishing, but it's used in episode 2 instead. Also, the final scene in episode 1 has some footage from episode 20 mixed into it just for the heck of it!?

And yeah, then there's the name changes. Which Tonka most likely are to blame for. Not that I think Saban would have kept the original names anyway!

[Ryusui]

Heh. True. It's kinda funny how Sylvanian Families and Maple Town are polar opposites in that regard: in the former case, the Western name changes are arguably an improvement, seeing how Sylvanians don't have names in Japan.

Anyways, the rest sounds like standard hackjob procedure. And I'd agree that changing the soundtrack is pretty much the worst thing that hackjobs typically do.

EDIT: Oh holy cow. What exactly is that site selling? 28 eps of the dub? The episode names match up with the original Japanese more than I would've thought...and episode 3 is pretty clearly listed. Whoa.

[Philip]

Home-made DVDs it would seem. Maybe someday I'll e-mail this person and see if we can work something out. I'd like to have those episodes in English, but it's not something I'm desperate for.

I found a couple of English episodes on dailymotion recently: www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x1g6is_TheRedBaron1985_maple-town/1#video=xnw8gi

I looked through the episode "The Most Prettiest Dress in Maple Town". I've seen 3 english episodes previously, and this episode seems pretty representative of what one can expect from the Saban dub.

Even if the dialogue is mostly relatively well translated, it seems to be a bit... how to say it... "sugar-coated"? We often hear stuff like "Everyday is wonderful in Maple Town", "We are so happy to live here." "I love you all so much" etc.. The Japanese version has some of this too, but I feel the English dub increased the cuteyness level of the dialogue significantly.

In the episode I watched, the softening of Robert's (Squire Squirrel in the dub) lines makes him appear a lot less cold towards his daughter than in the original version. The result is that you don't really feel as bad for Judy/Suzie. Also, the core of this episode: Judy thought her father hated her, which is evident in both versions, but Robert thought his daughter hated him (revaled while they are chasing Gretel on Marcel's scooter, Patty tells him that it's not the case), and that part is ignored in the dub.

The stuff I was expecting to be cut was cut, which was Robert hitting Judy and most of Robert's and Gretel's umbrella/sword fight. Robert's EPIC scooter maneuvering when he avoids driving over the edge of a cliff was also cut. The final shot of the episode (Judy hugging her father's arm) is cut and replaced with a shot of Judy's doll from earlier in the episode, and then shots of the Maple Town clock tower, Rabbit mountain and the forest and some mountains, all taken from unrelated episodes... that makes so much sense and doesn't look completely random at all! =P ("hackjob" is extremely accurate here!)

What I was totally NOT expecting was the completely out-of-place insinuation that "Fanny Fox" is fat... she clearly is not, and nothing even close to that was said in the Japanese version! Why insert something like that when they usually seem so concerned about having characters say "bad things"!!??

[Ryusui]

God knows. 4Kids has people "sent to the Shadow Realm" instead of dying in Yu-Gi-Oh!, and yet said Brock's mother had died (she'd left and showed up later alive and well) in Pokémon. There's no real logic or consistency.

If I had the money to throw at such a project, I'd commission a full redub of the series. I don't care if it'd never recoup its costs; this show deserves better.

[Philip]

Yeah, that's great! Multiple death cover-ups, and then creating a death that doesn't exist in the original! (But I guess at the time 4Kids reasoned that dying is a better excuse for leaving your kids rather than just... leaving your kids XD)

It's sad that American dubbing companies feel that any mention of death must be blacked out. It can really kill a scene (no pun intended!). For example I love this exchange between Patty and Bobby in the first episode, right after Gretel falls down a tree and hits his head...

In Japanese:

Patty: *screams*
Bobby: なんだよ？(What is it?)
Patty: グレテル死んちゃった (Gretel's dead...)
Bobby: 悪党だぜ (He WAS a bad guy!)
Patty: でも、やだ！ (Still... how horrible!)

I really like Patty's show of concern here. Here's how Saban "translates" it into English:

Patty: *Phew*
Bobby: (says nothing)
Patty: I guess that takes care of him!
Bobby: Well, let's hope so.
Patty: *Phew* (again)

That line does SO not fit her facial expression!

Dubs often seem to be inconsistent. Guess it shows that dubbing companies can't even be arsed to stick to their own principles.

[Ryusui]

Most dubs aren't like that, really. Granted, the actual quality can still be pretty hit-or-miss at times, but gratuitous hackjobs are in the vast minority these days. The Adult Swim lineup on Cartoon Network has some good examples of awesome dubs; checking the lineup right now, I can strongly recommend Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Durarara!!, FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, The Big O, and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

EDIT: On a random note, Reba West (Patty's voice in the Saban dub) is still doing voicework. She's one of the VAs for the Tachikomas in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, she has a bit part in Cowboy Bebop, and in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, which used to air on Adult Swim, she was the voice of Lelouch's sister Nunnally.

[Hanway]

So that English dub is horrible? I can make English subs from Russian translation to episdes 4-11 (or 12, I must look), maybe it's better.

[Gunheart]

Mar 1, 2012 13:14:52 GMT -5 Philip said:

What I was totally NOT expecting was the completely out-of-place insinuation that "Fanny Fox" is fat... she clearly is not, and nothing even close to that was said in the Japanese version! Why insert something like that when they usually seem so concerned about having characters say "bad things"!!??

[GLaDOS]Look at her, she's not fat.[/GLaDOS]

Yeah, that is really weird that they'd pull that. Though given the name she got stuck with, perhaps the writers for the dub just hated her?

I wonder what exactly they did about the episode with the spoon? I imagine Bobby trying to disarm a package bomb might not exactly have made it past the censors...

[Philip]

Mar 2, 2012 16:40:21 GMT -5 Hanway said:

So that English dub is horrible? I can make English subs from Russian translation to episdes 4-11 (or 12, I must look), maybe it's better.

Let us know if you want any help. I am definitely interested in such a project! =) I can check the script towards the Japanese dialogue to see if everything matches up if you like.

[Hanway]

Mar 3, 2012 15:38:07 GMT -5 Philip said:

Mar 2, 2012 16:40:21 GMT -5 Hanway said:

So that English dub is horrible? I can make English subs from Russian translation to episdes 4-11 (or 12, I must look), maybe it's better.

Let us know if you want any help. I am definitely interested in such a project! =) I can check the script towards the Japanese dialogue to see if everything matches up if you like.

Yes, I need help from whom English is native language. It's first time for me to make such translation, I can make many mistakes so I need someone to correct subs.

[Philip]

English isn't my native language, but I know it well enough that I'm confident I can do a good job polishing your scripts. Feel free to send whatever you got to [e-mail] and I'll have a look at it. =)

[Ryusui]

Mar 3, 2012 19:56:18 GMT -5 Philip said:

English isn't my native language

I never would've guessed. ;